what do you think? (politicy stuff.. kinda)

Off-topic general discussion, for everything else.
Facko
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Re: what do you think? (politicy stuff.. kinda)

Post by Facko »

Skakka when the walls fell... in America

The only lefty youtuber I like is Jimmy Dore. Left TYT when he realized it was a propaganda network and started his own thing. He's got opposite ideals from me mostly (I'd call myself a liberal conservative) but he believes in the truth and he's consistent.
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Calvin
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Re: what do you think? (politicy stuff.. kinda)

Post by Calvin »

a lot of people have said that about jimmy dore tbh... meh, i dunno. tyt did my fkin head in after a certain point, cant rly dis-associate him from that



you should check out that 2000ad documentary Future Shock ;)
i didn't know, but half of DC comics, including alan moore and the other guy that wrote watchmen - came from 2000ad
it brought kinda that whole psychological/political/distopian vibe to amerca.

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Calvin
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Re: what do you think? (politicy stuff.. kinda)

Post by Calvin »

lmao i just typo'd judge fredd.

but seriously like.. 2000ad is a dytopian comic, judge dredd is like a right wing punk.

here's your future autonomous zones :lol:


i guess maybe it's cos the right is seen as authoritarian, and the left as liberal.
then the justification for liberal stuff is "people are all good"
while the justification for authoritarian stuff is "people are kinda trash"

see the left thinks the autonomous zones will turn into paradises cos people will be free to be the good people they are.
the right thinks they'll all be taken over and become drug gang ghettos...

it's all a bit inverted now tho.. left thinks people suck, right thinks people good.

left wing authoritarianism is scary tho, proper 1984, stalin shit.

i suppose you'd be the right wing liberal which is like free market capitalism.. has it's own problems. how do you think we got google and them in the first place. doesn't seem to be right answer, they all have flaws.

i suppose then what they're doing is like drawing a line and saying "these are the good people, those are the bad people"
but then how they doing that? by race? hmm
by political party? pfft..
by class? urgh..

better to just say we all kinda in the grey area.

but then you either say "shit happens", or "no-freedoms".

what you end up with is what we have really, cos it's not actually designed so much as evolved.

tbh i dont really worry about it, cos all you're worried about is the present.. it'll always find an equalibrium one way or the other, and it'll never truely be balanced, so it'll always be changing. trying to solve this stuff is like trying to get a spirit level flat on a sphere.
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Calvin
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Re: what do you think? (politicy stuff.. kinda)

Post by Calvin »

i like most things tbh, but this style is totally my fav xD



nice to see it being relevent :P
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Calvin
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Re: what do you think? (politicy stuff.. kinda)

Post by Calvin »

personally i dont see the issue with stuff tbh. like the whole gender rolls thing, one side is saying like "men are x, women are y". the other is saying like "there's no such thing as men and women! it's all socially constructed!"

but i dont see the issue personally cos both can be true, just because it's socially constructed doesn't make it 'not real'. likewise just because it's real doesn't mean it's an objective truth.
Facko
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Re: what do you think? (politicy stuff.. kinda)

Post by Facko »

Calvin wrote: May 3rd, 2021, 10:11 pm personally i dont see the issue with stuff tbh. like the whole gender rolls thing, one side is saying like "men are x, women are y". the other is saying like "there's no such thing as men and women! it's all socially constructed!"

but i dont see the issue personally cos both can be true, just because it's socially constructed doesn't make it 'not real'. likewise just because it's real doesn't mean it's an objective truth.
It's the issue of forcing your ideals on someone who might not share them that's at the heart of the issue. You can't legislate morality.

People like to scream about equity and equitable outcomes but the only way to make everyone equal here is either to raise everyone to the top or put everyone on the bottom. Don't see our leaders doing anything to put us on top, so. ...
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Calvin
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Re: what do you think? (politicy stuff.. kinda)

Post by Calvin »

Facko wrote: May 5th, 2021, 8:48 pm You can't legislate morality.
well you wouldn't need to if people just respected eachother.. but they dont, so you do.
that's the problem with liberal communism.
you can enforce rules that approximate morality, and i suppose you're saying the issue then is who's morality is being aproximated...
that's where democracy comes in, they are supposed to be communialy agreed. kinda ironic really that most capitalist places have communially agreed laws, while most communist places have dictated laws based on a leaders morality.
:?

i suppose now we're on the communist democracy, which seems like a good idea, except it's basically just mob rule.
worsened by an oligarch class of capitalists.. cos the socialists dont realise the book doesn't stop with the government, and the government is actually just the publically owned fish, in a pond of other equally sized fish.

it's all very ironic really. cos while that should be 'their' fish, they are actually just feeding it to the private fish.

ya know it kinda actually is 4D chess, cos there are a lot of dimensions to consider at the same time :x
Facko
Posts: 282

Re: what do you think? (politicy stuff.. kinda)

Post by Facko »

Calvin wrote: May 5th, 2021, 9:03 pm
Facko wrote: May 5th, 2021, 8:48 pm You can't legislate morality.
ya know it kinda actually is 4D chess, cos there are a lot of dimensions to consider at the same time :x
Not really. Maybe it's just my American mindset but everything you said was pretty authoritarian. Government exists to manage the systems of society. Not to run society itself. It is that simple.
Facko
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Re: what do you think? (politicy stuff.. kinda)

Post by Facko »

Just an example of how fucked things are... 1 and 1 makes three right now because alternative math is a thing. That's where we are as a people.
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Calvin
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Re: what do you think? (politicy stuff.. kinda)

Post by Calvin »

what i mean by it's 4D, is like the left is only left in certain areas, the right is only right in certain areas, liberals are only liberal in certain dimensions, and authoritarian in others, etc etc

it's not just left vs right anymore, the it's like there is a whole other dimension that changes theit policy depending on things like their race, gender, socio-economic, blah blah.

it's like the goal posts are constantly moving, but there is method to their movement lol
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Calvin
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Re: what do you think? (politicy stuff.. kinda)

Post by Calvin »

your government is supposed to be like an ACME type company, where the members of the board are elected democratically and follow the mandates set when they are elected or set by referendums ;)
(ACME = A Company (that) Makes Everything).

however they cant/dont make everything, so they hire companies that do make the things. they are the supposed to be the managers of these companies, because that's a big responsibility to give to a private entity - a la facebook.

i mean i dunno, you are big on freedom stuff, libertarian stuff, but what happens when a company get a monopoly on something?
Facko
Posts: 282

Re: what do you think? (politicy stuff.. kinda)

Post by Facko »

I want the meritocracy back. That's all. It used to be the left and right debating and meeting in the middle. Not really us vs them.

Breaking up a monopoly is something I'm ok with. Provided their business practices are dishonest. Just being the best and getting big is different. That falls back into the government managing the systems of society. Competition is good for consumers.
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Calvin
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Re: what do you think? (politicy stuff.. kinda)

Post by Calvin »

Facko wrote: May 6th, 2021, 12:10 pm I want the meritocracy back. ... Not really us vs them.
i blame women in the workplace :lol:
it's a harsh thing to say, but men are simple. simple is effective.
Facko wrote: May 6th, 2021, 12:10 pm Breaking up a monopoly is something I'm ok with. Provided their business practices are dishonest. Just being the best and getting big is different. That falls back into the government managing the systems of society. Competition is good for consumers.
but that's regulation see, then it's a matter of how far you regulate them.

unless you're talking about black market stuff, the government is always involved in business.. it taxes them, it allows them to operate within the country, etc. this isn't too different from the communist ideal really.
it's always a matter of scale, not 'interfere <-> dont interfere'. gov and business are really linked pretty deeply in the fabric of society. otherwise you end up with something like japan in the samurai times, where like each lord has a bunch of retainers and stuff. but that's not a modern society.. that's like clans in anarchy.

when you ask for smaller government, what you actually doing is ceeding more power to the private entities instead of the democracy.
the trick with biden, is he's using bigger government to control the corps, but it's a government made up of CEOs of the corps. so they've pretty much captured the democracy whole instead of taking power off it.

this is actually why trump was good, cos he's too dumb to do that :lol:
he cant be 2 things at the same time, a businessman and a politician. that's ol' joey two-dens' bread and butter.


it's not a meritocracy because it's more important to them that people are on board with the political agenda. sorta like china really, their military training is like 60% indoctrination.
social justice is a bit like islam in that regard, it's self policing; like people are punished for blaphemy and apostates are hounded, etc.

i just find it massively ironic that the god of this new socialist religion is actually a capitalist take over.
Facko
Posts: 282

Re: what do you think? (politicy stuff.. kinda)

Post by Facko »

I can't argue systems that don't work. Just been trying to say that what we had worked. For the most part. Ive literally been arguing for the American system the way its supposed to work. The way it used to (seemingly) work. Assholes would ruin stuff and get weeded out generally. Not always. Nothing is perfect with people involved. But we had it good. Now we're no better than you.

Edit: actually we're worse. Our countries fought over economic stuff instead of horseshit dogma. The English could take us over again if they could get their own shit together lol

:lol:

Moar beer!
Last edited by Facko on May 7th, 2021, 11:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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