OSI Casting On Demise

[Vitek-]

This is a long one, so I put headers for each major argument.

OSI emulation -
This shard used to claim to be the closest thing to OSI besides OSI. This is a blatant lie, because the publish it's supposed to emulate had a lot of things that the Demise staff has decided to ignore and sometimes refuse to implement because they claim it's buggy. Osi casting is required to be even remotely like osi. This server is far removed from being osi-like for many reasons, but the most significant reason is the casting. I don't have to convince the staff that it is different from osi-casting because the staff has already acknowledged that it is different.

PVP scripts -
Adding osi casting would solve a lot of pvp scripting problems by mages. I think it would solve the mini-heal self/friend spam and make it more manageable than being about to get 3 miniheals off and be able to keep running at the same pace. Also, it'd solve the teleport problem which allows you to tele faster than someone can run, this is extremely broken because people who don't use scripts will almost always be slower running and teleporting by hand than the people who use the 10 tile teleport script. It'll allow the showcase of skill on timing spells in duels, which the people I've dueled on the test center have all agreed it's more fun, but that's just a few opinions, of course. This will also increase the importance of the poison spell in duels, specifically, because the whole point is to poison lock which is impossible on the server as-is without weaken spamming someone. And say good bye to the fireball/magic arrow script because currently it's remarkably hard to block without returning with a fireball/magic arrow script or weaken spam, because there is little to no penalty for spamming/overcasting.

"changing steam feature is sufficient" argument -
I agree that disallowing certain features would be a great thing. However, I don't think this would be sufficient, because 1. spamming with queued targeting most likely would be allowed which would be at best slightly slower than the script (if someone is good at pressing a button) and 2. Easy UO exists (archers will not be affected very much). I support the change steam features but I do not think it is sufficient because spamming would still be viable and would not increase the ability to disrupt things like cures.

Overcasting -
I think overcasting is valuable in both settings: duels and field, because you can't cast as fast as you can press the keys (or hold down 1 key), rather you have to time it. This will increase team coordination, instead of being able to say "I'm being dropped on" and the team holds down their "heal buddy" script which will miniheal/cure/clumsy the lowest and/or paralyzed target and rely on that to help their buddy survive a drop with 3+ people holding down the same button (I'm looking at you Mr. MB P; ), teams will have to rely on pre-casting and timing when they use a greater heal or else they'll be effective (this is one of the more beautiful things about pre-aos pvp, that people have to actually time the crossheals, I think our server needs to incorporate that). Team coordination is one of the greatest strengths of UO pvp and what makes the difference between a good and great guild.

Archers -
It's not impossible to kill an archer on osi-casting, nor is it significantly harder than the current casting. If you get the poison, bleed and/or mortal timing, you can be successful (this is true and required on both casting settings). Killing an archer has never been about spamming spells in rapid succession to beat out the band-aid timer, rather it's a well-timed use of heal-prevention and big damage spells (for the most part). There are places where archers are considered "OP" which is mainly in open-field/gate fighting, however if you put them in a chokepoint a group of archers are almost useless (hence why ES in particular is so easy to raid). The point is not that archers can't be used in a chokepoint with magical shortbows (of course they can), but the point is that the backbone of a chokepoint force is mages and are far more superior than an archer in a chokepoint. I don't think the reverse is true in the field, yes they are hard to kill, however they are not impossible. This means the balance between the two classes is location. People over blow the disparity between a mage and an archer, archers are not OP, they are effective and useful and maybe a little stronger in a 1v1 but they cannot chokepoint fight nor can they effectively crossheal meaning they are weaker as both sides get numbers. I'd take 4 mages over 4 archers any day. Sure, sometimes the archers can win but that'd be dependent upon mage skill and RNG. Also, I think there is a different global nerf that would balance out archers in brit fights, that we can discuss in another post.

PVM -
Pvmers should not be deterred, because there are few mage classes that pvm, except for tamers, but tamers have pets to supplement. The necromage/necroweavermage have alternate routes to doing spawns (in fel or in trammel rule set) by using summons (Energy Vortexes/Nature fury/Animating Dead), Spellweaving on 4/6 is still fast, Protection spell is a valid option (that I personally use on my necromage during spawns, currently). This may increase the difficulty of pvm for the few who choose to be mages, but I've played both types and the difficulty is not much more with osi-2/6 compared to runuo 2/6. The biggest difference will be the rate of spells which may slightly decrease the speed of killing something with a mage, however this should not be enough of a justification to nix the whole discussion. Also, I personally don't even see it as a down-side, because pvm right now is ultra-easy on demise, and decreasing the rate at which someone can cast a spell at a monster will be a very slight nerf that with pvm you will have a much easier adjustment, because the mobs do not cast at 2/6, they are much slower.

Potential population benefits and costs -
I know many current and old osi players as well as current and old demise players who would love this change. I will not claim that everyone ever will love this change, but I think the pvp population overall will increase, which of course I understand is not the majority of UO players who play the game. However, it should not hurt the non-pvpers (i.e. pvmers/crafters) population, because there are few mages and those mages have alternatives that allow them to adapt to the casting. It'll be a much easier adjustment to the new casting for pvmers than it will for pvpers. I think most of the players from Pestilent would probably leave Pestilent for Demise if the casting was changed to osi-2/6, simply because it is the casting that they enjoy as well as there is a significant amount of pvpers here, so they will want to move to the pvp that has the casting that they like. Also, the opportunity is now, because Pestilent's population is starting to dwindle, due to the lack of staff progression on changes (ex: their faction phase 2 was announced to be implemented like a year ago and has not been implemented since the last time I checked). I do understand there are some players who may quit the server if this happens, but in reality I believe this will be really small amount of players. This may make me sound like a dick but from a purely calculative position, the people who claim they'd quit probably won't because they are in a commitment trap of having spent so much time here that they wouldn't want to give up all their items/player progression just to prove a point about casting. The reverse is true also that people who have played her for a long time who do not like the casting can also be within a commitment trap of having items, not liking the pvp because of scripts, but are sticking it out because they don't want to feel their hard work went to waste. The people that would come-over from osi and pestilent I (and many others hold the same opinion) believe would far outweigh the few who would legitimately quit the server because there was a casting change. Here's one example, Bane who is an osi player has shown interest (within this forum) in Demise simply because there is the discussion about osi casting.

"Pest pvpers are toxic" argument -
This is not a good argument, because only some of the players from Pestilent are toxic. Everyone has toxic players, Kapero was recently banned from forums for threatening to harass opposing player's family members on facebook. From personal experience, comparing the worst thing I've seen from Pestilent and Demise (I'm sure some people have experienced worse from both sides). I'm not gonna name names simply because I don't take anything anyone says on this game to heart.
Demise: "get cancer and die"
Pestilent: "you work at a deli" not to me, but to another individual
From my experience demise has far more racism in it's trash-talk than pestilent, although both have it of course because people are assholes. The point isn't that all pest players aren't toxic, but that toxicity is inevitable with so many people and the anonymity computers bring about.

Other benefits -
It increases the viability of
-bleed mages
-melee dexxers
-bokuto mages v other mages (the combo is much better without mini-spam allowing recovery)
-necromages (makes strangle matter again because the ticks can affect you more significantly)

This is Bane status. Autist!

[Josh]

tryna talk shit vitek?

[jaasso]

the great wall of text

This is Bane status. Autist!

holy shit, that has to be a world record, but i gotta say that pretty much everything in that post is on point, except the apostrophe here (pet peeve):

From my experience demise has far more racism in it's trash-talk than pestilent

[Anthony File]

TLDR -

Implement a trial phase of OSI casting exclusively in Felucca.
We know this is possible as it can already be limited to a specific arena setting ingame currently.

[Llama Vortex]

Why not both?

Remove UOSteam, implement OSI casting. I think the game would be A LOT better.
People leaving? What people? You mean all those bots running heartwood, or those killing ancient liches? Maybe those harvesting gems would quit as well, but who cares? Shake things UP! Demise is desperate for change.

[Josh]

Why not both?

Remove UOSteam, implement OSI casting. I think the game would be A LOT better.
People leaving? What people? You mean all those bots running heartwood, or those killing ancient liches? Maybe those harvesting gems would quit as well, but who cares? Shake things UP! Demise is desperate for change.

uh, these were arguments i was answering like last year, Im down for getting rid of both.

[Llama Vortex]

I don't get it.

Most of people who wants to implement OSI casting plays regularly as mages. That alone should tell a lot.

We are tired of this way playing, we WANT to get nerfed. Please, someone nerf us.

I was an eager advocate for UOSteam before, but I realize now (and by now I mean like 3-4 years ago) that it hurts the game really bad. I tried PvP on OSI, and on test center, they felt great. You really need to think, instead of holding a freaking key. Scripts are out of control, the automation obliterated the fun.

[Vitek-]

methinks they want osi casting b/c they can't time mortals in field fights

[Josh]

Uh wut? time mortals? u still have to time mortals in osi-casting lol. And we wiped u guys like 5v5 in pure mage fights when u had 2 chiv mages lol

[The Silvertiger]

Uh wut? time mortals? u still have to time mortals in osi-casting lol. And we wiped u guys like 5v5 in pure mage fights when u had 2 chiv mages lol

Not worth your time to reply to the troll. I would say it's pretty obvious that OSI casting isn't going to be implemented as a full time or facet change. Eos basically said look here's proof I can do it and here's proof that I don't want to add it.

One of the main arguments is that osi casting makes duels more fun. Eos removed this argument by implementing that option in duel pits. So now we only have preference vs preference. They are well aware of your desire to have OSI casting, so basically you're wasting your time here.

[Josh]

Uh wut? time mortals? u still have to time mortals in osi-casting lol. And we wiped u guys like 5v5 in pure mage fights when u had 2 chiv mages lol

Not worth your time to reply to the troll. I would say it's pretty obvious that OSI casting isn't going to be implemented as a full time or facet change. Eos basically said look here's proof I can do it and here's proof that I don't want to add it.

One of the main arguments is that osi casting makes duels more fun. Eos removed this argument by implementing that option in duel pits. So now we only have preference vs preference. They are well aware of your desire to have OSI casting, so basically you're wasting your time here.

I mean the main argument is it makes mage scripts less useful, removing steam isnt a solution to that, bc razor enhanced and stealth clients can do that shit 10x better anyhow. But yea I doubt they'll change it, doesn't hurt to type while we're taking shits on the toilet.

[Bad Religion]

How do we know they are aware that we want it changed when to refuse to reply to any posts or comments regarding anything?

[The Silvertiger]

How do we know they are aware that we want it changed when to refuse to reply to any posts or comments regarding anything?

Ask Jose!

https://www.uogdemise.com/community/vie ... 14&t=26851

[Josh]

Here’s a funny joke they put on rules/starting post for the bug section, makes me laugh everytime:

WHAT WILL GET IMPLEMENTED
There are many features on OSI that players do not like; however, this does not deter Demise from being as much like OSI as possible. We will try to not implement OSI bugs onto Demise; however, making that determination should solely be done by staff/administrators. Just because players do not like an OSI change or think they can code it to be better is no reason to do so. There are very few Demise specific changes that should occur and these are usually coded/tested by staff for staffing purposes.

Currently, Demise's OSI accuracy goal is to implement all publishes up to the last publish before the Stygian Abyss expansion.

[The Silvertiger]

So the rules probably need updated. First off there's at least a two year old issue where very few things have been implemented osi accurate or not. If those rules are from psz as possibly implied they could be from the previous administration and therefore very in need of updating. I do know that in the previous administration players code got reviewed and implemented quite a bit. I think I even had some simple code put in that I played with.