Invalid Poisoning/Cure potions, suggested changes

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Josh
Posts: 1314

Poisoning/Cure potions, suggested changes

Post by Josh »

Why implement changes? This would increase the viability of poisoning characters in pvp, adding a melee dexxer that is viable to the mix. This would add a mage template and a dexxer template (maybe an archer template if someone is bold enough to use a longbow). Diversity is good in pvp, because it breaks the monotony of playing vs the same templates everyday. This could also add to maybe being a counter versus archers. Yes there are some viable melee templates already, but posioning is almost a useless skill and deserves some consideration.

Suggested change only change cure chance values not how ep works:
publish 75 (https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/ ... 6th-march/)
25% chance to cure lethal poison.
45% chance to cure deadly poison.
75% chance to cure greater poison.
100% chance to cure standard and lesser poison.


Yes I know, this publish is pass ML, but in ML they didnt have as many ecrus, they were hard to get, due to afk farming they were easier to get here, this means we should make an 'osi but better' adjustment, which means looking at some future fixes for consideration, assuming they have sufficient justifications to implement.

Formulas and Math - how ep works and how it should work out with proposed changes.

The formula for ep should work like (base chance x % of enhance potions) + base chance
examples: (20x .00) + 20 = 20
(20x .10) + 20 = 22
(20x .20) + 20 = 24
etc...

Math/formula on stratics - https://uo.stratics.com/content/skills/alchemy.php
Heal pots
0 ep = 20-25
10 ep = 22-27
20 ep = 24-30
30 ep = 26-32
40 ep = 28-35
50 ep = 30-37
50 ep + 33 alchy = 32-40
50 ep + 66 alchy = 34-42
80 ep + 100 alchy = 36-45

agility/str pots
0 ep = 20
10 ep = 22
20 ep = 24
30 ep = 26
40 ep = 28
50 ep = 30
50 ep + 33 alchy = 32
50 ep + 66 alchy = 34
80 ep + 100 alchy = 36


Would it be OP under these numbers?
Well, I think it would punish players who don't have EP, which is what a poisoner is designed to do. The numbers would work like this for greater cure potions vs lethal poison (same formula as the above, you dont treat the % to cure as a % in the formula, only the ep) -
0 ep = 25%
10 ep = 27.5%
20 ep = 30%
30 ep = 32.5%
40 ep = 35%
50 ep = 37.5%
50 ep + 33 alchy = 40%
50 ep + 66 alchy = 42.5%
50 ep + 100 alchy = 45%

Cure pots are fast, so people will still be able to cure with relative ease, but it still is a delay in healing, because of base action delay, possibly setting up some options for pvp (like sync dumping while enemy is poisoned, getting another hit off/different special, timing it so the bandage cures instead of the potion, etc.)
Last edited by Josh on November 1st, 2018, 12:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Grifo
Posts: 1585

Re: Poisoning/Cure potions, suggested changes

Post by Grifo »

No.

Its no works in osi with others pubs pos ml, why u think work in demise?

The true problem in demise is mage cast, x-field, explo pots in wrong tiles and leechs.

Any newb warrior can flood infinite special moves with hml. Any stupid no lag mage can heal and crossheal without disturb and runuocast.
Josh
Posts: 1314

Re: Poisoning/Cure potions, suggested changes

Post by Josh »

Grifo wrote:No.

Its no works in osi with others pubs pos ml, why u think work in demise?

The true problem in demise is mage cast, x-field, explo pots in wrong tiles and leechs.

Any newb warrior can flood infinite special moves with hml. Any stupid no lag mage can heal and crossheal without disturb and runuocast.
Im saying poisoning doesnt work on demise. There are certainly other problems on demise, this is just one solution for one problem friend. These other issues are not reasons this issue should not be changed.
Grifo
Posts: 1585

Re: Poisoning/Cure potions, suggested changes

Post by Grifo »

but ur suggestion is change EP/Alchemy too, this update is HS/SA, because others itens can give EP and EP cap changes!


If Leechs are fix, stop stupid wraith farm for necromages with infinite mana and recharge mana with one hit with hit mana leech!

you can change poison, but i think need change:

1) pots impossible throw back.
2) fields (crossfield energy and field) like OSI
3) cast flood with disturb or osi-like.
4) leechs.
5) total refresh pot change for greater refresh pot.
6) Cu sidhe notame bug.
7) teleport + Special move fix
Grifo
Posts: 1585

Re: Poisoning/Cure potions, suggested changes

Post by Grifo »

Special move need strategy to use for mana economy, no stupid flood mortal+concussion+mortal+concussion.
Ignore+ignore+ignore. lol
Josh
Posts: 1314

Re: Poisoning/Cure potions, suggested changes

Post by Josh »

Grifo wrote:but ur suggestion is change EP/Alchemy too, this update is HS/SA, because others itens can give EP and EP cap changes!


If Leechs are fix, stop stupid wraith farm for necromages with infinite mana and recharge mana with one hit with hit mana leech!

you can change poison, but i think need change:

1) pots impossible throw back.
2) fields (crossfield energy and field) like OSI
3) cast flood with disturb or osi-like.
4) leechs.
5) total refresh pot change for greater refresh pot.
6) Cu sidhe notame bug.
7) teleport + Special move fix
no this is incorrect, My update is only about changing cure, i was just making a statement of how ep works on demise (it works the same as the formula), the cure nerfs are from HS/SA, Im not saying give items EP nor changing ep to every 3% giving a bonus nor increase the cap of EP, those dont need implementation. This is just a thread that could be a possible idea to make poisoning more effective. The other things need to be changed too sure, but this is not what the post is about, we should discuss whether or not the cure change would be a good or bad one (the only suggestion is change the cure values).

The things you suggest might be valid but this is not the thread for that discussion, because they are not reasons to not do the cure change. Each one of those need a separate bug report.
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The Silvertiger
Posts: 4469

Re: Poisoning/Cure potions, suggested changes

Post by The Silvertiger »

OP needs to be plainer. I support cure pot nerfs.
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Vander Nars
Posts: 2130

Re: Poisoning/Cure potions, suggested changes

Post by Vander Nars »

Grifo wrote:but ur suggestion is change EP/Alchemy too, this update is HS/SA, because others itens can give EP and EP cap changes!


If Leechs are fix, stop stupid wraith farm for necromages with infinite mana and recharge mana with one hit with hit mana leech!

you can change poison, but i think need change:

1) pots impossible throw back.
2) fields (crossfield energy and field) like OSI
3) cast flood with disturb or osi-like.
4) leechs.
5) total refresh pot change for greater refresh pot.
6) Cu sidhe notame bug.
7) teleport + Special move fix
So basically u came to a thread about poison and potion cure changes to bitch about stuff completely unrelated to the topic?
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Grifo
Posts: 1585

Re: Poisoning/Cure potions, suggested changes

Post by Grifo »

For balance pvp need bigs(others) changes. One change increases unbalance only.
DG
Posts: 222

Re: Poisoning/Cure potions, suggested changes

Post by DG »

I support buffing dexxer templates.

However we need to apply osi casting first,otherwise its very likely we will see more op mages.
Josh
Posts: 1314

Re: Poisoning/Cure potions, suggested changes

Post by Josh »

Grifo wrote:For balance pvp need bigs(others) changes. One change increases unbalance only.
Explain how this particular change will be unbalanced?
Grifo
Posts: 1585

Re: Poisoning/Cure potions, suggested changes

Post by Grifo »

The update Will overpower mage/noxxer template, just need one kryss with hml sc and flood forever fast cast spells and lethal poison + ignore for recharge mana.
Josh
Posts: 1314

Re: Poisoning/Cure potions, suggested changes

Post by Josh »

Grifo wrote:The update Will overpower mage/noxxer template, just need one kryss with hml sc and flood forever fast cast spells and lethal poison + ignore for recharge mana.
-Poison mages can't lp without being super close to you and e/o'ing you, and dp cure values are up a bit (so it's not that hard to cure with ep), so i dont think poison mages will be significantly stronger (maybe they'll actually be viable outside a duel pit)

-tactics mages - this could be something people start playing because it would actually be able to stop healing for a certain amount of time, but i dont think it's even close to better than an archer mage and mortal still would be a better investment, so i dont think it'd be unbalanced compared to any current template that is playable.

-Melee dexxer - well this assumes you wont be able to move, which in that case yea you're probably dead, however you should still be able to compete vs a lp dexxer. hml flood is already more broken for archers. It would make lp dexxers viable, they still have counters, like fields, quick casting, cure pots, etc. I think the hml thing should be changed but i dont think this will make infectious strike dexxers unbalanced, especially considering how power archers are at this time. If i remember correctly spamming infectious strike doesnt cost a lot of mana anyways, it seems to be more of a reason why armor ignore is broken and less why infectious strike would be broken in my opinion.
Grifo
Posts: 1585

Re: Poisoning/Cure potions, suggested changes

Post by Grifo »

I can see the combo teleport+deadly+flood weaken + team gank.


I can see mages with bola dismount macro, lethal poison in Pets (fucking dexxers)
Grifo
Posts: 1585

Re: Poisoning/Cure potions, suggested changes

Post by Grifo »

I was played in Shard with this fucking poison (cure pots) update.

Today? The shard is closed.
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