TC Update June 18, 2017 - OSI Casting

All discussion regarding the Demise Test Center shard.
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Eos
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TC Update June 18, 2017 - OSI Casting

Post by Eos »

The Test Center has been updated to now feature OSI-accurate casting. This "fix" has been requested numerous times, and can now be tested alongside the other Demise mechanics.

The change (as it is) is currently not planned to be applied to the main server. This is due to the buggy nature of the OSI casting mechanics and the almost definite negative impact it will have for everyone.

The change, specifically, consists of:
  • Spell timer priorities have changed to mimic typical OSI delays in spell casting. This effectively means your spell casting time can take up to 250ms longer than technically required (as opposed to 25ms before this change).
  • Casting a spell within 250ms of your last spell will "break" the spell. This is very buggy behavior that occurs on OSI that effectively means you cannot cast spells in fast succession. A "broken" spell will appear to cast fine initially (showing the words of power), but it will not lead to a target, will not block movement and will only show 1 casting animation, but it does block casting a new spell until it finishes completely.
Enjoy! (or not)
Eos
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Eos
Demise Administrator
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Re: TC Update June 18, 2017 - OSI Casting

Post by Eos »

Also, mandatory beating of a dead horse: :beathorse:
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royal kapero2
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Re: TC Update June 18, 2017 - OSI Casting

Post by royal kapero2 »

Although people say casting should stay as it is, some of them mention UO steam as a problem that is needed deal with, everyone must understand that fixing casting would meet the expectations about UO steam being nerfed.

We would see more warriors finally, its mortal strike weapons cannot be compared to archer's crossbow or bow, however bleed attack, poisonous strike, mace's conc blow and kryss armor ignores, after the change, will be there to compete with archers and mages, as mini-heal spam will be halted. An alternative to OP archer's mortal strike spam.
Reefer
Posts: 453

Re: TC Update June 18, 2017 - OSI Casting

Post by Reefer »

royal kapero2 wrote:Although people say casting should stay as it is, some of them mention UO steam as a problem that is needed deal with, everyone must understand that fixing casting would meet the expectations about UO steam being nerfed.

We would see more warriors finally, its mortal strike weapons cannot be compared to archer's crossbow or bow, however bleed attack, poisonous strike, mace's conc blow and kryss armor ignores, after the change, will be there to compete with archers and mages, as mini-heal spam will be halted. An alternative to OP archer's mortal strike spam.
I agree, casting needs to be changed, it wasn't so bad before but with the release of Steam it's just too powerful now. This is also coming from someone who pretty much beats any mage here in a 1v1. If this casting change does some how get implemented I will deff come back and i'm sure alot others will too.
desalonne
Posts: 439

Re: TC Update June 18, 2017 - OSI Casting

Post by desalonne »

I wont lie i have been looking for a Vanilla ML server for some time. Demise is as close as it gets, but the 1 thing that has stopped me from playing here is the moment i logged in and started to pvp i noticed it was all scripted pvp with arcade style casting, took all the skill all the enjoyment and desire out of the experience when people have the ability to hold 1 button down and win a fight.

That being said i have been saying this for a hot minute, if there were a vanilla ML server with accurate OSI like casting GURANTEE it would flood with players and do extremely well. The pvp would be competitive, the template diversity that ML offers would make it an all around enjoyable experience that i know i personally have been looking for. Im definetly a +1 vote for accurate casting. I also know many MANY people that would come to a server like that.
Tempest
Posts: 2507

Re: TC Update June 18, 2017 - OSI Casting

Post by Tempest »

Tested the casting on the TC.

Tried multiple scripts such as teleports/miniheal-potchug/mafb.. etc. None of them work the way they do on live server, which means if used you will die. Fixes the instant teleports and miniheal on the run, which is absolutely astounding. :D

The only drawback I see here is that archers will be more stronger than they already are, but we will see actual timing of g-heals on mages (a display of actual skill), which is something I haven't seen in years on this server.

#1 way to fix scripting issues during pvp on a server is to fix the casting. There are so many people out there searching for that 1 server that has accurate OSI casting with a promising player base and active staff, all of those things are well-within reach here.

All in all, scripts are the reason why many people/OSI-Vets refuse to play on this server, and the super-fast casting is the cause of the scripting. Fix the casting, takeaway the scripts, and vets/players will flock here like camels to an oasis.

I will continue testing to provide more updates about the subject.

Many Thanks.
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atomic chicken
Posts: 499

Re: TC Update June 18, 2017 - OSI Casting

Post by atomic chicken »

The timing is crucial, multiple "true-ish" 2-6 servers are failing and had big player bases, if demise changed the live server to osi 2-6 you'd get A lot of people. These people leaving these dying servers like ultimate-shards and pestilent will be faced with a question - go to demise or osi? If this server becomes osi 2-6 most will pick demise. They are looking for authentic casting without the imbuing bullshit and without having to pay $15/mo. Trust us, this is in the best interest of the server.
Last edited by atomic chicken on June 19th, 2017, 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
atomic chicken
Posts: 499

Re: TC Update June 18, 2017 - OSI Casting

Post by atomic chicken »

Eos wrote: [*] Casting a spell within 250ms of your last spell will "break" the spell. This is very buggy behavior that occurs on OSI that effectively means you cannot cast spells in fast succession. A "broken" spell will appear to cast fine initially (showing the words of power), but it will not lead to a target, will not block movement and will only show 1 casting animation, but it does block casting a new spell until it finishes completely.[/list]

Enjoy! (or not)
This is not buggy nor a bug, this has multiple purposes and even if it were a bug is beloved by MANY mages.
1. It is a mechanic used to prevent spamming as you eloquently put it "fast succession". Spamming has been the problem on demise for years, that is literally what the fb ma script does and it does it faster than most humans can (especially if yo don't use queued targeting).
2. It incentivizes timing your spells better and preparing for spell disrupts. Potential benefits of using timing thing is people actually using the poison spell, the whole point is to block someone from curing so you can cycle them until they are dead (in duels) this is nearly impossible when steam and your current casting makes cures obscenely fast.
3. It is a mechanic to allow a player who is losing to come back in a duel.
4. It's called overcasting (maybe this should be #1) which I believe should be punished, a good mage should have to hone their spellplay not be babied into it, UO wasn't made for the children, it literally is one of the most cutthroat mmos in history, they're big boys they'll figure it out.
5. Being able to use this to your advantage differentiates the "good" mages from the "great" mages, which on demise ping is the only thing that differentiates mages nowadays
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The Silvertiger
Posts: 4469

Re: TC Update June 18, 2017 - OSI Casting

Post by The Silvertiger »

I know that maybe an issue you are foreseeing may be pvm side, but maybe there's a fix. Maybe you could code the casting if fel osi2/6 and if tram/Ilsh/malas/tok demise2/6. I do believe a majority of the pvpers would like to see this change on the live server. Those with high ping may struggle with the casting, but their archer templates would become really powerful. Also, it would make dexxers decent in the field again. We had a discussion a year or so ago about the addition of uos being one of the biggest problems with the server and the fact that it's basically too late to remove it. I believe this casting fix would cement the felucca side of the server and bring in more players, which means more potent eoslike staff members. :P As far as the tram ruleset this fix would devastate it. I love how this server has an active tram and fel, with some players never venturing into the other ruleset. Basically, to wrap it up I'll go back to the thought: code this for fel. I don't know if coding it like that would make it buggy, but it's worth a shot to test it on tc.

Edit: Also, I must reiterate what those above me have mentioned. What seems buggy to you, i.e. inability to cast spells in rapid succession, is actually not buggy at all. The process of having to time spells, even on demise before the uos update, is one of the most appealing parts of PvP. Add-in true timed disrupts and we're having a ball.
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atomic chicken
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Re: TC Update June 18, 2017 - OSI Casting

Post by atomic chicken »

Casting in pvm should not be a concern... mobs literally have simple interactions, you just have to learn them and adapt, also there are VERY few just mage-style templates that don't rely on pets. Tamers have pets, dexxers usually don't get disrupted bc their spells are quick and simple (I.e. Consercrate weapon, enemy of one, curse wep, etc). The only classes I can think of would be necromages and spellweavers but spellweavers already have 4/6 and that definitely needs to be slowed down and necromages may just have to take the hit on the pvm side. Also, since when did servers want pvm to be easy, it should actually be semi-difficult to get good items, which making changing casting will barely affect the difficulty level of pvming. Also, spawns should not fall into the pvm category, even though there is pvm'ing occurring, spawns are one of the central hubs for pvp and should thought about in the context of what is best for pvp (except obviously spawns in ilsh, which most people use tamers and the only risk is losing insurance money at that point).
Arden
Posts: 1703

Re: TC Update June 18, 2017 - OSI Casting

Post by Arden »

I'm down for the change. You'll lose a lot of shit mages but you'll gain a ton of new players.

You have to hope all the shit goes dex.

Which like tempest said will be the main concern. Dex will be stronger. This isn't a big issue but it will be a change in overall game play and server feel.
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Loler
Posts: 2485

Re: TC Update June 18, 2017 - OSI Casting

Post by Loler »

At least ill be able to bring out the parry bandage mage again finally :)
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Duque
Posts: 454

Re: TC Update June 18, 2017 - OSI Casting

Post by Duque »

That casting is shit, i have been playing in demise since 6 month ago, before i played in 3 server and i haven't seen nothing like that. I don't play mage template in pvp, but it should be horrible to do pvp or pvm with this casting.
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Maloskies
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Re: TC Update June 18, 2017 - OSI Casting

Post by Maloskies »

This would be a good change IMO, it would bring in a lot of other players. It'd be a major buff to the already powerful archers though.

I would like to see some other things re balanced if the change does go through, making apples osi accurate, or at least closer to osi accurate would help a bit, with maybe a few other things.

I'd probably just switch to my parry chiv mage anyways.

Is there a way we could put test dummies to cast with on test center?
Brad
Posts: 443

Re: TC Update June 18, 2017 - OSI Casting

Post by Brad »

Problem with making the apple timer OSI accurate is that the necro becomes obsolete like it was on OSI for field fighting. It's still pretty useless here as it is but it's at least playable. I'd be in favour of the changes if the "new player influx" would actually stay around for more than 2 weeks. Archers are already annoying, won't be much difference from how some guild play already (6 archers, 1 tactics mage.)
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