Getting your inputs on how we could improve Demise's PvP

Let loose about your latest battles and other PVP shenanigans here. (This section is still subject to moderation.)
Josh
Posts: 1314

Re: Getting your inputs on how we could improve Demise's PvP

Post by Josh »

Arden wrote:If josh, Vander or I posted someone it was likely something discussed in our discord. And made them bc I’m lazy. Fuck you josh and Vander.

And i said pvp stuff. I’m sure there are numerous bugs on the pvm side.
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Vander Nars
Posts: 2130

Re: Getting your inputs on how we could improve Demise's PvP

Post by Vander Nars »

The Silvertiger wrote:
Arden wrote:I’ve been constructive. I would argue more than you and your trolling ways. Nearly EVERY pvp change in the last 2 years have come from my suggestions. Besides being a troll tell me what you have done.

You don’t know shit about demise and it’s staff. You’re just another trammy believing in the bullshit. You forget who I used to play with when i started Demise. And where I came from before Demise.



If it makes you feel better I will stand by Demise and it’s staff. If i can get some sort of commitment from eos that changes are coming. Not just the simple “we see why you want changes but we’ll see”. I’ve been over it for a few weeks now. And I’m done beating off the retards like ajani, morto and shake
Bug Reports:
Bugs posted by Arden: 5
Bugs posted by Vandy: 7
Bugs posted by Silvertiger: 17 : Mostly minor bugs with very few implementations or discussion.

Notable Reports:
Wildfire Stacking - Arden
Make Poison Viable - Vander
Murderers Healing Pets - Silver

Vander also started a casting report which I included in his number, but I'm not sure if he was the original.

I had quite a few that I didn't count because they either weren't bugs or they were forum related. I also provided lots of documentation for other reports. Not just speculation/I remember it this way.

Also, don't be taking credit for Josh's reports. Eos made it pretty plain that it is a weekly discussion amongst staff and that baby steps were very likely to occur such as an occlo implementation.

Finally, I'm not even going to try to count Bama's reports. However, it is worth noting that with all of her reports most of them are not implemented or have discussion tied with them.
Look at all the good work iv done on this shard and people have the nerve to call me toxic....
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Tempest
Posts: 2507

Re: Getting your inputs on how we could improve Demise's PvP

Post by Tempest »

Arden wrote:I disagree... you can’t beat mini heal script without purple pots or mortal. So don’t throw “any good mage” can beat it.

Unlike most of the people talking in this thread I was a top dueler on osi not just a runuo/steam super star. And you 100% can hold down mini heal self with pots and never die as long as your mana holds out and you don’t take a mortal or purple pots. It’s almost as strong as a scribe mage harm spamming a target that doesn’t move. If you add in heal pots with ep it is stronger.


Now if you mean in the pits without pots just mini heal self vs a mage cycling. Yes a mage could win but you’d need to get some interrupts and I would call those lucky bc Demise casting is so fucked a 150ping vs a 50ping makes getting those super hard. But it’s hard to talk about bc Demise dueling is the dumbest dueling rules I’ve evwr seen. Most Demise duels allow specials and weapon swings in mage duels. One of the main reasons outside of the casting that demise “duels” are joke to all mages outside of Demise (and even most of us on it)

“Duel me bro but let me use mortal my scripts and pots to prove I’m better”

Dont know if you know Drake or not, but apparently he played in KvG for awhile with you guys and he is a better mage than most of you guys by a pretty good slide.

Bile killed both Drake and Reefer in wrong field on mounts without mortal or conflags.

I guess you're just not on that level of gameplay yet.
I T-Bagged Vander's corpse and he came back from the dead and attempted to bite my nutsack.
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Josh
Posts: 1314

Re: Getting your inputs on how we could improve Demise's PvP

Post by Josh »

Arden
Posts: 1703

Re: Getting your inputs on how we could improve Demise's PvP

Post by Arden »

Tempest wrote:
Arden wrote:I disagree... you can’t beat mini heal script without purple pots or mortal. So don’t throw “any good mage” can beat it.

Unlike most of the people talking in this thread I was a top dueler on osi not just a runuo/steam super star. And you 100% can hold down mini heal self with pots and never die as long as your mana holds out and you don’t take a mortal or purple pots. It’s almost as strong as a scribe mage harm spamming a target that doesn’t move. If you add in heal pots with ep it is stronger.


Now if you mean in the pits without pots just mini heal self vs a mage cycling. Yes a mage could win but you’d need to get some interrupts and I would call those lucky bc Demise casting is so fucked a 150ping vs a 50ping makes getting those super hard. But it’s hard to talk about bc Demise dueling is the dumbest dueling rules I’ve evwr seen. Most Demise duels allow specials and weapon swings in mage duels. One of the main reasons outside of the casting that demise “duels” are joke to all mages outside of Demise (and even most of us on it)

“Duel me bro but let me use mortal my scripts and pots to prove I’m better”

Dont know if you know Drake or not, but apparently he played in KvG for awhile with you guys and he is a better mage than most of you guys by a pretty good slide.

Bile killed both Drake and Reefer in wrong field on mounts without mortal or conflags.

I guess you're just not on that level of gameplay yet.
I do know drake. Hes shit. And drake and reefer both don't use steam mini heal. I dont know about reefer, but drake pings about 20 if i remember correctly. And reefer lives middle of the country so hes prob around 70. I specifically said its difficult to kill people on demise casting with mini heal and a good ping vs just mage spells. I didnt say impossible. I'm sure bile recorded both of those fights knowing him. Link me if you have it.

I feel like you didnt even read my post. Youre saying that Bile was able to beat 2 people that dont use steam in a duel.

I specifically said that its possible to do just that but difficult if you have a bad ping.

I was making the point that with pots, mini heal script and in field fighing its hard to beat someone with just mage spells.

Either read my post, or dont try to argue with me
Tempest
Posts: 2507

Re: Getting your inputs on how we could improve Demise's PvP

Post by Tempest »

Arden wrote:
Tempest wrote:
Arden wrote:I disagree... you can’t beat mini heal script without purple pots or mortal. So don’t throw “any good mage” can beat it.




Words written from your own fingertips.
I T-Bagged Vander's corpse and he came back from the dead and attempted to bite my nutsack.
Arden
Posts: 1703

Re: Getting your inputs on how we could improve Demise's PvP

Post by Arden »

Arden wrote:I disagree... you can’t beat mini heal script without purple pots or mortal. So don’t throw “any good mage” can beat it.

And you 100% can hold down mini heal self with pots and never die as long as your mana holds out and you don’t take a mortal or purple pots.
Copy the whole quote.

Must be a pretty shitty life to read the title of a book and just assume the entire story.

Ill gladly hold down my mini heal button with pots against Bile using spells if you like. I ping 150. I have a strong feeling that the mini heal button will win against him. He is a significantly better dueler than I am, but steam+pots+mini heal is a retarded ass function. My guess is the mini heal button with the pots like i said, would likely do just fine against his spell cycling.

Which is the point trying to make. Even a great dueler is going to struggle to beat the stupid creation that demise is for a pvp server.
Tempest
Posts: 2507

Re: Getting your inputs on how we could improve Demise's PvP

Post by Tempest »

Arden wrote:
Arden wrote:I disagree... you can’t beat mini heal script without purple pots or mortal. So don’t throw “any good mage” can beat it.

And you 100% can hold down mini heal self with pots and never die as long as your mana holds out and you don’t take a mortal or purple pots.
Copy the whole quote.

Must be a pretty shitty life to read the title of a book and just assume the entire story.

Ill gladly hold down my mini heal button with pots against Bile using spells if you like. I ping 150. I have a strong feeling that the mini heal button will win against him. He is a significantly better dueler than I am, but steam+pots+mini heal is a retarded ass function. My guess is the mini heal button with the pots like i said, would likely do just fine against his spell cycling.

Which is the point trying to make. Even a great dueler is going to struggle to beat the stupid creation that demise is for a pvp server.

I agree with you.

Good people not using these scripts can certainly beat those that do use them, they just have to try a little harder.
I T-Bagged Vander's corpse and he came back from the dead and attempted to bite my nutsack.
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Legacy
Posts: 448

Re: Getting your inputs on how we could improve Demise's PvP

Post by Legacy »

The Silvertiger wrote:Keyword: selection.

Many people quit demise cause there was too much pvp. They couldn't get power scrolls because hz was raiding 2 tier and leaving. So they went to other servers where they could spawn to their heart's desire.

You think kvg is the only guild to suddenly disappear overnight? There will always be some fresh meat on demise that wants to pvp. Hz will need to split up most likely, but it's nothing new. Heck hz has been around almost 10 years itself.
Yeah, we had a very well established system AND champion spawns weren't a walk in the park then. That dominance is why PvP died then, not any bugs or whatever. It's why I eventually quit and didn't rejoin when I returned.

And as far as PvP changes come, MB didn't have much a say in it afaik. His biggest enjoyment in this game is raiding spawns. He never claimed to be a particularly good mage, but he did enjoy raiding and field fights. And since that champion spawn change, his presence in PvP has been reduced more and more. So I don't think it's his influence alone, as staff or as a play, whichever he is, that's stopping casting change.

I've said I prefer the current casting, right? There are many here who also do. That includes PvMers and PvPers. See, most of the staff is made of PvMers. They've been used to the current rules foreever. Same for the biggest part of the active player base, which never PvP.

I'm willing to test the changes if they come together with leech fix, cu sidhe fix and do cure pot/poison tweaks. Heck, I'd go back to using my nox mage and I believe my warfork could be put to some very good use then. But if they change this and PvP doesn't improve in terms of quality AND quantity, then it's pointless. It will just anger a huge part of the player base. That's why I suggested a temporary side-server.

But we clearly can't agree on a compromise here so... :beathorse:
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Bama
Bug Hunter
Posts: 4617

Re: Getting your inputs on how we could improve Demise's PvP

Post by Bama »

Legacy wrote: See, most of the staff is made of PvMers. They've been used to the current rules foreever.
Many Staff members past current and future(?) never played on OSI

I can also argue that past/former Staff members that did play on OSI and did PvP on OSI and Demise never helped or tried to change things to improve the PvP side of things right?
They did abuse their power just a little though

We can't just blame the ones that don't PvP and/or didn't play OSI
There is a lot of blame to go around here for both Staff and players especially the ones that played OSI
The ones that knew better but did nothing
The ones that argued the fixes knowing that the fixes were right
The ones that knew they were exploiting the game/mechanics

There is a special blame for the "PvP'ers" that were Staff and players that played OSI that KNEW the grizzled mares were coded wrong but it didn't stop them from acquiring 5 of them to run around in Doom with. Out damaging everyone with 5 grizzled mares when on OSI they were nothing more than a tad better than deco or used for role playing.

I also agree with getting leeching fixed and added in with the casting change but again here is how we screw ourselves over and over
Leech bug report
https://www.uogdemise.com/community/vie ... 14&t=27110

So we have a PvP'er (you) that wants the leeching fixed

We have a PvP'er who in their own words
Loler wrote:So i noticed this forever ago and chose not to say anything because if you change it to what its supposed to be then necro mages just beat every class in pits. If your enemy ever gets low on mana u go wraith and take all their mana to 0. They literally can't even cast mini heal. If your enemy is a weaker offensive caster you can get in wraith earlier and the second the wraith form caster gets an offensive edge the duel ends from mana basically. Also its nice in pvm to gain mana from rotters and so forth.

Mind you i play a necro mage for pits and am saying it would be a very bad change and make necro way to strong
What exactly do we want Staff to do because if I was in charge I would tell you all "you don't know WTF you want!"
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DG
Posts: 222

Re: Getting your inputs on how we could improve Demise's PvP

Post by DG »

That's exactly why I agree PvP things should closely follow OSI.PvPers tend to have a bias.They want their favorite template strong so that they can always win.Its hard for them to keep rational and objective.

OSI settings are not perfect.But most time we are not certain we can find a better way.
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The Silvertiger
Posts: 4469

Re: Getting your inputs on how we could improve Demise's PvP

Post by The Silvertiger »

DG wrote:That's exactly why I agree PvP things should closely follow OSI.PvPers tend to have a bias.They want their favorite template strong so that they can always win.Its hard for them to keep rational and objective.

OSI settings are not perfect.But most time we are not certain we can find a better way.
I think you didn't read loler's post. He said he plays the character that would get a boost if the changes bama proposed would be put in place.
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The Silvertiger
Posts: 4469

Re: Getting your inputs on how we could improve Demise's PvP

Post by The Silvertiger »

Legacy wrote:
The Silvertiger wrote:Keyword: selection.

Many people quit demise cause there was too much pvp. They couldn't get power scrolls because hz was raiding 2 tier and leaving. So they went to other servers where they could spawn to their heart's desire.

You think kvg is the only guild to suddenly disappear overnight? There will always be some fresh meat on demise that wants to pvp. Hz will need to split up most likely, but it's nothing new. Heck hz has been around almost 10 years itself.
Yeah, we had a very well established system AND champion spawns weren't a walk in the park then. That dominance is why PvP died then, not any bugs or whatever. It's why I eventually quit and didn't rejoin when I returned.

And as far as PvP changes come, MB didn't have much a say in it afaik. His biggest enjoyment in this game is raiding spawns. He never claimed to be a particularly good mage, but he did enjoy raiding and field fights. And since that champion spawn change, his presence in PvP has been reduced more and more. So I don't think it's his influence alone, as staff or as a play, whichever he is, that's stopping casting change.

I've said I prefer the current casting, right? There are many here who also do. That includes PvMers and PvPers. See, most of the staff is made of PvMers. They've been used to the current rules foreever. Same for the biggest part of the active player base, which never PvP.

I'm willing to test the changes if they come together with leech fix, cu sidhe fix and do cure pot/poison tweaks. Heck, I'd go back to using my nox mage and I believe my warfork could be put to some very good use then. But if they change this and PvP doesn't improve in terms of quality AND quantity, then it's pointless. It will just anger a huge part of the player base. That's why I suggested a temporary side-server.

But we clearly can't agree on a compromise here so... :beathorse:
I disagree with your view, but your points are more valid than any other person who is in open opposition to the casting change.
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Loler
Posts: 2485

Re: Getting your inputs on how we could improve Demise's PvP

Post by Loler »

The Silvertiger wrote:
DG wrote:That's exactly why I agree PvP things should closely follow OSI.PvPers tend to have a bias.They want their favorite template strong so that they can always win.Its hard for them to keep rational and objective.

OSI settings are not perfect.But most time we are not certain we can find a better way.
I think you didn't read loler's post. He said he plays the character that would get a boost if the changes bama proposed would be put in place.
Most people just read the parts they want to read.
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DG
Posts: 222

Re: Getting your inputs on how we could improve Demise's PvP

Post by DG »

Loler wrote:
The Silvertiger wrote:I think you didn't read loler's post. He said he plays the character that would get a boost if the changes bama proposed would be put in place.
Most people just read the parts they want to read.
No.I read it long before.I said PvPers TEND to have a bias.Not mean every single one or every single time.It did not refer to loler particularly.Plz dont get me wrong.
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