Community contributions - how do we do this?

General discussion pertaining to the Demise shard. Off-topic posts will be moderated.
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Calvin
Posts: 5686
Location: UK

Re: Community contributions - how do we do this?

Post by Calvin »

ultimately, if you wanna make uo better, find the things which make it not like a proper miniverse.

so like inconsistencies in the use of items, graphics/sound bugs, things not working as they should.
that is what most of the fixes are, and it's right to fix those things.

if you wanna make suggestions then suggest things which will be more realistic or systems that will simulate a real thing.
but i dont think they are looking to change much.. they wanna copy EA if they're sticking to OSI..


so if you wanna make it more of a competitive *game* instead, then fix the inaccuracies in the engine, or add some more clearly defined game rules...

i honestly dont know what EA have done after i stopped playing, but im guessing there'll be stuff along these lines.


if you are experiencing a problem with the game, then explain it; dont try to give the solution, just explain the problem.
there will be a lot of things you are not aware of. but your problem is still a problem, and it can probably be fixed, just often not in the way you think.


we're in a slightly difficult position, because the reason we stopped our updates where we did, was probably because we didn't like the path EA was taking the game. but if they wanna stay close to OSI, they cant take it in another direction either.

the real problem to be honest, is eos needs to decide what she wants to do with it.
oooh decisions dear ;)
this is the real hard part :P

they are trying to have their cake and eat it with the events :P
might work.... just makes the game kinda seasonal is all.
there's not really a massive problem with that i guess... just... you have a lot of players that play in the offpeak times with nothing to do..... battlegrounds!

honestly, wow nailed this problem with the battlegrounds, i never raided, always had people to kill, had it's own ladder of items and stuff to climb. it was good. very nicely designed game wow. but it is a designed game, it's not a virtual world.

+

hmm

19 Jun 2020
Script Kiddie
Ultima Online uo.com Atlantic OSI PVP

i dunno i cant see much different, you're all playing a different game to me. *shrugs*

++
https://forum.uo.com/discussion/55/lets ... eryone-now
"Lets Discuss and fix PvP for Everyone Now"
February 2018

we are pretty OSI accurate then... pvp is broken there too.


-------------

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultima_Online

wow a lot has happened apparently:
2 Development
2.1 Beta and assassination of Lord British
2.2 Origin era (1995–2004)
2.3 Electronic Arts era (2004–2006)
2.4 Mythic Entertainment era (2006–2014)
2.5 Broadsword era (2014–present)

i guess i should read up... pffft...

"Electronic Arts era (2004–2006)
The sixth expansion, Samurai Empire, launched in November 2004 was Japanese-themed. It offered two new professions, the Ninja and the Samurai, as well as new Japanese-themed housing tile sets. New lands, the Tokuno Islands, were added, with the cities being styled after ancient Japanese cities.

Ultima Online was the first MMORPG to reach the 100,000 subscriber base, far exceeding that of any game that went before it.[25] Subscriber numbers peaked at around 250,000 in July 2003, but then began a steady decline. In 2008 the game had around 100,000 subscribers.[26] As of April 2008, Ultima Online held a market share below 0.6% of the massively multiplayer online game subscriptions.[27] This may in part be attributed to the 2004 release of World of Warcraft, which quickly established hegemony over the MMORPG market and has attracted scores of players from all preexisting games in the genre.

Expansion number seven, Mondain's Legacy, launched in August 2005. It featured the second player race, Elves. The quest system received a major upgrade, as did the crafting system. Spellweaving was added to the skills. Many new dungeons were added. This expansion was the first that was only available online (offline versions on CDs could be ordered). Mondain's Legacy was the last expansion, with updates becoming more irregular after that point.

Mythic Entertainment era (2006–2014)
In June 2006 Electronic Arts purchased Mythic Entertainment, the creators of Dark Age of Camelot. Mythic was tasked with managing EA's MMORPG portfolio, including Ultima Online. That month it was also announced that the anti-cheating software PunkBuster would be integrated into Ultima Online. This marked the first time PunkBuster would be used with an MMORPG to help curb cheating and exploiting. However, it was never integrated into the game, and in November 2006, Electronic Arts put the PunkBuster integration on indefinite hold.

In August 2007 Ultima Online: Kingdom Reborn was released. This was the first major overhaul of the client and artwork systems since Ultima Online: Third Dawn. The final expansion was Stygian Abyss (2009), which focused on the gargoyle race. After Stygian Abyss the development model shifted from expansions to "booster packs" that were intended to be smaller updates released more frequently. However, the first booster pack High Seas of 2010 was also the last.

Broadsword era (2014–present)
It was announced on February 6, 2014 that development of the game would be transferred from Mythic to Broadsword, a new studio, that would take over future development.[28]"

https://youtu.be/CRynOXfqWkk?t=17

you could always email one of them:
http://www.broadsword.com/about.html

should i apply? :P
oh what a surprise, they only want programmers :roll:
User avatar
Calvin
Posts: 5686
Location: UK

Re: Community contributions - how do we do this?

Post by Calvin »

tl:dr version - you need eos to tell you what she wants.

for that you need her to decide what direction she wants to take the game, and she doesn't want to make a decision either way, cos it might be the wrong one...

if you ask me... EA made the wrong one, that's why they lost Richard Garriott, and once they lost him they had no vision, they just chased money.


tho to be fair, there's actually nothing saying that Richard Garriott's vision of a virtual world would have worked either. there is a reason wow got all the players.. it's a tough one really. for now tho, just make sure all the bugs are out. shouldn't be that hard for a game that's stayed the same for like 10 years...

if there was a simple solution to all this tho, it woulda already been fixed. it's a difficult problem. ... ... probably why she was happy to piss about with coding for a year ;PP
she's avoiding the actual problem... which is that the world cant stay static like this forever... especially when people are automating the original systems.. there's only so much emergent gameplay that can come from base mechanics.. yeah it's a lot, but it's not infinite. the good part is that one slight addition makes a million emergent results (because it's a virtual world and everything is interconnected), so they dont even have to do that much... but they do have to do *something*.

but "because it's a virtual world and everything is interconnected" it's also very easy to break. it's sort of a house of cards. because it has grown/evolved to be how it is, it's not designed to be that way.
that's sort of the nature of the beast, it's why they made wow how they did. its easy to put in things like new items if they aren't tradable, droppable, etc. it's easy to put in a new boss if their loot is bind on pickup. these systems they put in, are literally there to avoid the exact problems UO highlighted.
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Calvin
Posts: 5686
Location: UK

Re: Community contributions - how do we do this?

Post by Calvin »

Calvin wrote: July 13th, 2020, 5:15 am this is where it would be good to look at OSI and see what they did, because they will have had the same problem..
so they sold it, is basically what they did. then the next person sold it... then the next person sold it.... yeah i see a pattern.

just outa curiosity... i wonder how much the original UO intellectual property is worth now.... should we all have a bit of a fund raiser :lol:

you guys kinda missed a trick in 2014 ya know, you coulda been Broadsword :D

there's really not *that* much difference between this and that, just the pay grade and the income.. and i suppose a publisher creaming off the top... or are they even... do EA still own it? that studio cant have bought it outright... they dont even have a proper website...

http://www.broadsword.com/games-ultima-online.html

jesus, the state of those 4 epic screenshots... urgh, just give it back to Garriott... our designers are better than that.

im kinda disgusted that they've given UO to some fkin backyard wrestling studio... there's a reason everyone hates publishers...


http://www.broadsword.com/games-dark-ag ... melot.html
"Award: Best PvP MMO of the Decade (2010)"- Tentonhammer
:?


hmm not that bad i suppose, they did *kind of* make dark ages of camelot... cept their lead designer left in 2008 to do warhammer online, then started on Camelot Unchained, which has been in development for 8 years now.. so that's never coming out..
the other guy... oh he became the director of elder scrolls online in 2014.
so basically the talented people moved on.

the one guy that's left in Broadsword that's credited with DAC, doesn't have a wiki page.. he'll have something i guess.. go on i'll have a look...
yeah he's the programmer:
https://www.metacritic.com/person/rob-denton

like.. my point is that i dont think we should really be copying the people that regard this game the way they regard it...
yeah they respect it, but they're treating it like an elderly parent, sticking it in a nursing home until it dies..


in my opinion, for the same reasons i've been saying all along. because it's a virtual world, there is a reason we dont make those.
they are very, very, very hard to keep on track. you can try to make a designed experience in it, but you're building on sand, because the game itself is not made along those lines.

if you actually wanted to develop along Garriott's lines.. you just wanna put in like... shit really, just stuff.. then the players will use it however they use it, that is the beauty of the game. it's a really shit plan.. but... that's how he made it. to be fair, we have better ways now. but you can still keep the core of it intact. from a design point of view, UO is actually closer to like Minecraft than WoW.

... you could have a look what they did on minecraft, that'd actually be a really good idea... hmmm... pistons...
anyway, you wanna keep it close to osi.. so this is all kinda moot.

i cant stop thinking about a UO piston house now :lol:
g'wan, give us magical electronics :P
switches *drools* ;P
imagine the possibilities... if you could actually make a switch to trigger something elsewhere in your house.
see that's how you make emergent gameplay, you dont design the system start to finish really, you just put in the ability and let the players use it however they want. which is how uo is designed... it's also why it broke a lot.. but yeah..
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Gargl Kark
Posts: 484

Re: Community contributions - how do we do this?

Post by Gargl Kark »

where's the list you quoted from?
Whammy | Timezone: GMT+2

2020-09-17: SALE | Jewels List
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Calvin
Posts: 5686
Location: UK

Re: Community contributions - how do we do this?

Post by Calvin »

which list?
i shoulda put the website next to it if it's in quotes..

i just thought btw, we kinda have switches in the form of telekinesis spell.. you could just make a wand of telekinesis, change the graphic, make it so the target is predefined - switch.
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Calvin
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Location: UK

Re: Community contributions - how do we do this?

Post by Calvin »

thing is right, the modern way to design, is to design for the player. there's a lot of psychology in it.
Garriott didn't do that, he just built a world that made sense. he didn't even really consider the players.

he just gave people the *ability* to do things, he didn't actually manipulate people to do anything. which, frankly... is 100% what modern games design actually is. so it really depends what you want..

should watch that Albion online GDC talk, they're tackling these kinda problems.

you want the bit where he's talking about balancing the economy i think.. weirdly. i dont think he means money.
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Calvin
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Re: Community contributions - how do we do this?

Post by Calvin »

"Controversies
Since the designers of Ultima Online wanted to provide freedom and sense of agency, it was important to allow players to act in a villainous role. The consequences of in-game criminality were adjusted over time, but maintaining the general commitment to player freedom. As explained by designer Raph Koster, "Being safe from evil is, in my mind, an uneven tradeoff for the fact that you don't get to be heroes anymore, in that you can just opt out of fighting evil. It may be nobody wants to be heroes except when it doesn't count, when it isn't challenging, that people would rather fight 'pretend evil' than the real thing, but I don't personally believe that. I still think people are better than that."[57]"

*snigger*
see we all know you guys are evil :lol:

only one problem Raph:



it's not that it's dumb.. it's just playing by rules.. which i suppose.. you could call dumb.. if all you care about is winning.
i'd have a crack at being a hero if it was in game stuff, but it's not. it's all out of game stuff.. and like.. im playing the game for the game... not to make a new client and write scripts :/
which again brings me back to the distribution package... if you wanna make that the game, then make that the game. but dont expect people to have to use stuff outside the game to play your game.. that's just messed up.
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Gargl Kark
Posts: 484

Re: Community contributions - how do we do this?

Post by Gargl Kark »

Calvin wrote: July 13th, 2020, 5:15 am just looking through 2019

yeah the vast majority of these are just world fixes and bugs. the only things that are really pvp and pve focused that jump out, are the casting system, and the afk check gump.
What are you referring to? What did you look through?
Whammy | Timezone: GMT+2

2020-09-17: SALE | Jewels List
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The Silvertiger
Posts: 4469

Re: Community contributions - how do we do this?

Post by The Silvertiger »

Stop derailing threads.
Never forget June 4th 1989!
Selling List & Vendor

"Screenshots will never be used as evidence but more of a reference tool for us to help in our investigations."
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Calvin
Posts: 5686
Location: UK

Re: Community contributions - how do we do this?

Post by Calvin »

"The following changes will go in effect after the scheduled server restart tonight:
Pigments can be used on more item types crafted with special materials:
House addon container deeds (e.g. arcane bookshelf deed)
Miscellaneous carpentry craftables (e.g. stools)
Fishing poles
Wooden containers
Jewelry
Light sources (e.g. candelabras)
Instruments
Pigments can now be used on the following artifacts: Conjurer's Trinket, Conjurer's Grimoire, Conjurer's Garb.
We look forward to the added color in the world of Demise!"

see i wouldn't really call that a pve change.. and like.. wtf? pigmented furniture?
ow, my brain... and look at the comments... urg.. honestly i go away for like a year...

yeah im sure the pve people really wanted darkside boxes...
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Calvin
Posts: 5686
Location: UK

Re: Community contributions - how do we do this?

Post by Calvin »

"The following changes have gone into effect during server wars tonight:
Added a 6-hour time limit to champion spawn boss fights. (A champion will despawn after being alive for 6 hours, resetting the altar.)
Fixed Spirit Speak causing loot to seemingly disappear from open corpses on some monsters. (Bug report)
The following resources may now be deeded using a commodity deed:
Orange petals
Petals of the Rose of Trinsic
Enchanted apples
Grapes of wrath
Bolas
Bola balls
High quality granite
Lockpicks"

yeah im sure the pve people wanted a reset on the fel champ spawns...
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Calvin
Posts: 5686
Location: UK

Re: Community contributions - how do we do this?

Post by Calvin »

"The following changes will go into effect during server wars tonight:
The "OSI Casting" dueling option will now also affect the delayed damage of the following spells in the same way as the casting delay (i.e. adding a "random" delay up to 0.25 seconds):
Magic Arrow
Fireball
Mind Blast
Energy Bolt
Explosion
Chain Lightning
Flame Strike
Meteor Swarm
Spells cast by anyone on the island of Ocllo in Felucca will now always use OSI casting. For now, this area will serve as a testing grounds for the OSI casting mechanics. To be exact, the OSI casting region lies between X,Y coordinates (3300, 2325) and (3849, 2959), only in the Felucca facet.

Spells cast anywhere else remain unchanged."

how the fuck have you figured these to all be pve focused updates...
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Calvin
Posts: 5686
Location: UK

Re: Community contributions - how do we do this?

Post by Calvin »

"The following changes have been made during server wars:
Pet corrections:
Pets no longer automatically follow you after claiming them from the stables, summoning them, adding/removing a pet friend, or when turning into a pet ghost. The follow order must be given manually.
Pets no longer follow ghosts. If a pet owner dies, the pet will stop following. The follow order must be given again manually after resurrecting to resume following.
Stabling a pet now maintains the last given order on the pet, it no longer defaults to follow when claiming.
Stabling a pet no longer refills the pet's happiness.
Feeding a pet now gives it a "stop" command.
Murderers and criminals may now freely perform beneficial actions on their own pets without turning criminal/extending their criminal timer. (Bug report)
Buccaneer's Den has been added to the OSI casting region. Specifically, the region between X,Y coordinates 2540, 1895 and 3024, 2399 in Felucca.
When using a Buccaneer's Den dueling pit, the dueling ruleset will override the OSI casting region. If OSI casting is turned off in the ruleset, it will be off (despite being in Buccaneer's Den).
Platforms have been added to the Buccaneer's Den dueling pits to give spectators better line of sight.
A dueling pit has been added to the Vendor Mall.
Fixed an issue with jewelry boxes not displaying the properties of contained items.
The Candle of Love event has ended."

sooo... this seems like all fel stuff to me again?
who is concerned about their pets following them when they die, and who has been claiming from the stable with 0 taming and lore?
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Calvin
Posts: 5686
Location: UK

Re: Community contributions - how do we do this?

Post by Calvin »

"The following changes have been made during server wars:
House co-owners are now account-based (Report/request):
Adding a co-owner will give all characters on the same account co-owner access, but will only use 1 co-owner slot.
Adding a co-owner will remove any characters on the same account from the friends list.
On server start, all co-owner lists will automatically update to only include one character per account.
If a character is deleted, all co-ownerships will transfer to a different character if possible. (Much like house ownership.)
Deleting the last character on an account will no longer instantly drop an owned house without any co-owners/friends. Instead, it will now enter decay."

that's actually a bug. tho it should be tied to the account anyway?
aren't all the account members automatically co-owners...?
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